Mishnah Berachot 7:2
Women, slaves and minors are not counted for the zimún.
How much should you eat a person to force the zimún?
A kazait (the volume of an olive) it is enough to force the zimún.
Rabbi Yehuda says:
A kebeitza (the volume of an egg) is the minimum force the zimún.
Mishnah Berachot 7:2: complete study and technical
1) Text and literal translation-controlled
Hebrew (normative core):
“נָשִׁים וַעֲבָדִים וּקְטַנִּים, אֵין מְזַמְּנִין עֲלֵיהֶם. עַד כַּמָּה מְזַמְּנִין, עַד כַּזָּיִת. רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר, עַד כַּבֵּיצָה.”
Accurate translation:
“Women, slaves and minors: no zimún ‘about them’. How much (how much you should eat one for zimún? Until a kezait. Rabbi Yehuda says: even a kebeitza.”
Two axes halájicos open immediately:
- Axis (subject to the quorum): who can be “counted” to form the legal unit of the zimún.
- B-axis (shiur of activation): what is the threshold of intake that makes someone a participant with the ability to bind/activate the zimún.
2) What is the zimún, in terms of the legal-formal
Zimún it is not “a courtesy liturgical”. It is a institution rabbinical that transforms a shared meal at a collective act of Birkat Hammazón (blessing back to the bread), with a formula of “invitation” prior (the “Nevarej...”).
Its normative logic combines:
- Chovat haguf: every individual is obligated in Birkat Hammazón for having eaten bread.
- Din tzibur / tziruf: food joint creates a collective subject to start the invitation and, with ten, enter the mention of the Name (“Elokeinu”), in accordance with the parameters encoded in Orach Jaím (mainly siman 192 onwards, with a focus on 197-199).
The Mishnah 7:2 is located where applicable: defines the perimeter of the “tziruf” (who) and the minimum threshold of consumption (what counts as participation halachic relevant).
3) “אין מזמנין עליהם”: what it says exactly (and what NOT stated)
The formula “does not zimún ‘on them’” it's technical:
- It does not mean that women/servants/younger can't say Birkat Hammazón. The say, because they're required (with nuances in the level of obligation in some cases).
- It does not mean that to be able to answer a zimún. In fact, a woman who ate with men usually answer.
- What fixed the Mishnah is a limit of tziruf: not the mind to form the quorum of free men adults on which rests the obligation of the formal zimún in that framework.
This limit is discussed and blends in the Gemara (Berachot 45a–45b, and continuations), where it appears a critical input: women can form zimún between them (and also slaves among them), but they are not integrated in the zimún men's standard as “accounting” to build it.
4) Foundation talmud: Berachot 45a–45b, and the voltage regulation
In the suguiá (Berachot 45a–45b) are two planes:
- Exclusion of the tziruf: “women/slaves/minors do not generate zimún “about them” (the Mishnah).
- Capacity of zimún autonomous“women make zimún for themselves; slaves do zimún for themselves” (baraita in Berachot 45b).
The apparent tension is resolved as well:
- Do not integrate as “units” accounting for the zimún male.
- Yes, they can (according to several readings) constitute a zimún autonomous under conditions.
This is a great divergence of the Rishonim:
- Rambam: tends to think that women (and slaves and the canaanites) yes are required in zimún each other, but not mixed with the zimún of men for reasons of modesty/community structure (Mishné Torah, Hilchot Berachot 5:7).
- Tosafot and other: tend to qualify as reshut (optional) for women, no obligation in full, even if it responds to a zimún when it is present.
That branching is essential because it conditions practice, liturgical education and sociology halachic.
5) why “women, slaves and minors': three categories, three legal reasons different
Although the Mishnah the groups, the underlying reasons are not identical.
5.1 Women
- Obligation of Birkat Hammazón: there is, but the poskim discuss the level (deoraita vs derabanán) in some frames, which impacts the ability of motzí (enforce) to others. Rambam, for example, recorded a doubt relevant and therefore limits the ability of women to take men from their duty in certain cases (Hilchot Berachot 5:1).
- Tziruf and public structure: the zimún, especially with mention of the Name when there are ten, is dealt with by several Ajaronim as close to a phenomenon of “devar shebikdushá” in the sense of functional (conceptual discussion). Without the need of sobreextender that category, the policy outcome is: not account for the quorum men's standard.
5.2 Slaves
In the classical literature is spoken mainly in the eved kenaaní (slave canaanites) with halachic status including: bound in many mitzvot as a woman.
- Risk of social mixing/modesty appears explicitly in some of the formulations legal: we do not recommend a “javerá” (group) joint of women, slaves and minors “by pritzut” (Mishné Torah, Berachot 5:7).
- In modern terms, this section tends to be theoretical for the absence practice of status, but it is crucial to understand the architecture halachic of the tziruf.
5.3 Minor (ketaním)
Here the shaft is another: lack of daat halachic full (legal capacity in full). The child is in chinuj (education), but it is not “bar-jiuvá” full obligation to adult.
And yet, the suguiá advances: in Berachot 48a is discussed that a child who “knows who blesses” can, according to authorities, join the zimún under specific parameters. This discussion ends up with a translation codificatoria with divergence between communities (see section 8).
6) The shiur: kezait vs kebeitza, and what it measures exactly the Mishnah
The question “how much does zimún?” not “how much should be eating three in total?”, but: how much you should eat each participant to be considered commensal halájicamente relevant for the purposes of zimún?
6.1 Kezait (olive) as a threshold basis
The Mishnah fixed kezait as enough. Conceptually, this is usually linked with two notions:
- Aji-lá least significant: the Talmud uses kezait as the minimum unit of “eat” in multiple areas.
- Activation of rabbinic obligation: for several halachot, the kezait works as a minimum threshold to enter the field of regulations of “consumption” is relevant.
6.2 Rabbi Yehuda: kebeitza (egg) as a threshold, the more strict
Rabbi Yehuda required kebeitza. Why?
In the device halachic, kebeitza usually appears as a threshold in subjects where the “food” must be more than symbolic, or where it is connected with parameters of seviá/establishment of food (depending on the topic). In zimún, Rabbi Yehuda is raising the participation threshold: not just “a minimal intake”, but an intake more clearly “food”.
6.3 Standard practice: how to decide
In the encoding classical, is usually adopted to kezait it is enough to enter/to force the zimún, although the lattice depends of if is specifically required kezait of bread or simply kezait of any food in certain scenarios “tziruf” (for example, to complete a third party when you two ate bread). The halachah encoded distinguishes between:
- Who are obligated in Birkat Hammazón for bread (nucleus of the seudá).
- Who can join for the zimún eating other things (rules of “tziruf” developed in Orach Jaím 197).
For an expert analysis, what is critical is not to mix levels: the Mishnah speaks of the threshold for zimúnbut your implementation passes the coded map of the tziruf (197-199).
7) Difference between “obligation of zimún” and “capacity of tziruf”
This is a point where even advanced readers often confuse layers.
- Obligation to say Birkat Hammazón: be active, to eat bread with parameters halájicos (and, deoraita, by seviá; derabanán, for thresholds children, as approaches).
- Obligation of zimún: turns on when there is food joint and a quorum defined diners who meet criteria.
- Capacity of tziruf: specific rules of who “counts” to form the quorum, and under what conditions (for example: if you ate the same thing, if they sat together, if they did eat bread, or just accompaniments, etc).
Berachot 7:2 fixed two pieces of that puzzle, but it does not exhaust the system.
8) Psak and practice: the Shulchan Aruch (Orach Jaím 199) and the divergence sephardic/ashkenazi on minors
8.1 Women and zimún
The encoding classical in Orach Jaím (siman 199) formula, in a general way:
- No zimún with women as members of the quorum male.
- Women can do zimún between thembut the status of that practice (obligation vs. optionality) is the subject of discussion; in practice codified common it is presented as a reshut (option), although multiple authorities recommend your realization when applicable, especially in the context of three women who ate together.
This point is crucial to “everything you need to know”: there is a real difference between:
- “do not count for the zimún male”, and
- “there is no zimún female” (this last is not correct).
8.2 Lower than “you know who blesses” (katan she-higi'to le onat hapo'ot)
The Shulchan Aruch (Orach Jaím 199:10) includes a formulation of broad: a minor who knows who blesses can be integrated the zimún, even for three or ten, according to the plain reading of the text. However, the Rema registers the posture ashkenazi restrictive: not incorporated until the age full of thirteen years (or, in variants, this would limit the use of the minor).
Practical result (in terms of descriptive, not prescriptive personal):
- Minhag sephardic: more prone to having a child with daat enough, under the conditions and limits (for example, do not multiply under to build quorum artificial).
- Minhag ashkenazi: generally more restrictive in tziruf of minors for zimún, especially for scenarios-sensitive (such as ten with mention of the Name).
For an expert, the point here is not “who is right” in the abstract, but to recognize that the theme is coded with divergence of psak and heavy weight of minhag.
9) Implications halájicas of the first order (borderline cases, and ramifications)
Then, the aspects that typically determine actual practice and decisions rabbinical:
- They ate bread vs no bread: zimún is a structure linked to Birkat Hammazón; the tziruf who ate “something” other than tends to be an accessory and regulated.
- Exact quantity and type of food: the “kezait” of the Mishnah translates to questions of contemporary measurement, but the legal framework is: “what ate enough to be considered commensal halájicamente relevant?”.
- Who leads: even where a child may “count” according to some, many authorities limited the minor lead the zimún.
- Mixed groups:
- men + women: women respond, but not in use to form a quorum of men;
- women among themselves: possibility of zimún female;
- combination women/slaves/minor: classical sources warn against certain combinations by “pritzut”, which reveals that the legislator rabbinical not only legislates “numbers” but also social context and sensibly in.
- Ten and mention of the Name: raises the sensitivity of the tziruf and, for some, the category conceptual of the act.
10) conceptual Reading: why the Mishnah fixed “who counts” and “how much he ate” in the same sentence
The Mishnah is built as a “unity of architecture rules”:
- First defined who does not generate quorum (women/slaves/minor).
- Then define how much is enough to generate the condition of “diner relevant” (kezait; Rabbi Yehuda: kebeitza).
This structure teaches us a principle: the zimún not only depends on “having been present”, but a conjunction of:
- personal status (bar-jiuvá in the framework of the quorum), and
- act of consumption minimum (shiur), which makes the presence in participation halachic.
11) you can't overlook this
If you want to master Berachot 7:2-to-expert level, these points are non-negotiable:
- Differentiate with rigour: individual obligation of Birkat Hammazón vs collective obligation of zimún vs rules of tziruf.
- Know the suguiá of Berachot 45a–45b (women and zimún), and the Berachot 48a (less than know who to bless).
- Identify the great fork of the Rishonim: Rambam (obligation female zimún between women) versus approaches reshut.
- Recognizing the translation coded: Orach Jaím 197-199, with the critical point of 199:6-7 (women) and 199:10 (minor) the addition of the Rema that modulates the psak by minhag.
- Understand the background of “pritzut” as normative criterion context in the regulation of groups.
